Tuesday, 20 October 2009

Pope poaches priests?

The Vatican has declared today that it will alter Church law in order to welcome male Anglican priests, even those who are married, who feel they can no longer remain in the Church of England because they are opposed to the ordination of women.Vincent Nicholls described this as a , " courageous and generous" move, although it has been described in the media as the Pope poaching Anglican clergy. Evangelicals have expressed their dismay, probably because they do not personally want to turn to Rome and because their position might be weakened without their Anglo Catholic cronies around. Somebody from Reform was on the radio on the way home warning that Anglicans must deal firmly with , " alien new beliefs" ( such as that dangerous new idea that it might be a wholesome and Christian thing to treat women as equals?)
My main concern is that this news may make the Church more cautious to move ahead with women bishops without lots of legal caveats, on the other hand, this comment on Thinking Anglicans today did draw my attention:
Please leave the lights on as you go, because the rest of us will be carrying on, business as usual. Goodbye.
A bit terse, I didn't say it and it might go against the grain of inclusion, at the same time, life might be easier for everyone if some people actually want to be poached.


  1. Hi Sue, glad to see you read my post on TA. I admit it was terse, but as a priest of over thirty years in the Catholic tradition of the CofE I am heartily sick of people who exclude women and treat them as second class citizens and then claim that it is catholic teaching. It's not. There plenty of catholic clergy in the CofE, men and women, who will serve those parishes well when the misogynists leave. 'Against the grain of inclusion' to see those people leave? I don't think so. They're welcome to stay and be inclusive alongside the rest of us. And, by the way, I don't think many will go, and it will put the conservative evangelicals in a very difficult position. Look out for fireworks.

  2. I have a number of priests in mind, whom I would like the Pope to poach, preferably in a good veal stock with a bouquet garni. Can you arrange this, please?

  3. Hi Toby and welcome!

    I used your post from TA because it expressed a lot of how I feel and I thought it was well put and might strike a chord - hope you didn't mind. I do notice your comments on TA, you have a way with words.

    I think so many of us are heartily sick of the attitudes we see, I just am aware that many conservatives are quick to complain that "inclusion" doesn't cut both ways. As you point out, though, if people want to go, they exclude themselves.I also don't think many will go, just hope this move doesn't slow down progress.

    Thank you for commenting :)

  4. Hi Poppy, softly poached priests coming up...

  5. Sue - Just wondering...

    If women seek to be ordained, are they really looking for equality?
    Or, are women looking for power, profit, prestige and recognition?
    Are women looking for honor from men and from women?
    Why not look for equality with Jesus?
    Isn’t Jesus to be our example?

    Didn’t Jesus make himself of no reputation,
    and take upon himself the form of a servant
    and humble himself? Php 2:7

    Are their eyes on man and how man has gained a reputation?
    And not on Jesus?
    (What is Humble?) (Can you have a title and be humble?)

    When women are ordained by humans and receive,
    papers and “titles,”such as, reverend and pastor,
    are they receiving honor from man?
    Are women creating a reputation for themselves?
    Are women now no longer looking for Jesus to be their example?
    Are women now looking to man to be their example?

    Jesus Himself refused honor from men.
    Jesus declared in John 5:41; “I receive not honour from men.”
    He goes on to say, “ How can ye believe,
    which receive honour one of another,
    and seek not the honour that cometh from God only?”

    Jesus also declares,
    “If I honour myself, my honour is nothing...” John 8:54

    When women greet each other with the use of titles
    are they receiving honour one of another?
    If that title is engraved on a business card or a door sign;
    are they honoring themselves and thus their honour is nothing?
    Doesn’t the Bible call graven images idols?
    Could a “title” be an idol?

    Doesn’t a “title,” with it’s power, profit, prestige and recognition,
    appeal to; “the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes,
    and the pride of life,
    which is not of the Father, but is of the world?” 1 John 2:16

    If women take a title are they looking for their own glory?
    Jesus said, “I seek not mine own glory...” John 8:50
    “He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory...” John 7:18

    If women take a title are they looking for the praise of men
    more than the praise of God?

    John 12:42-43 Nevertheless among the chief rulers also
    many believed on him;
    but because of the Pharisees they did not confess him,
    lest they should be put out of the synagogue: (congregation)
    For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God.

    “The chief rulers” loved the praise of men
    more than the praise of God. Hmmm?
    Are there any women today wanting to be “chief rulers?”
    Are they looking for the praise of men more then the praise of God?

    And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold:
    them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice;
    and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
    John 10:16

    One Voice- One Fold - One Shepherd.
    If Not Now; When?

    Be blessed.

    In His Service. By His Grace.

  6. If you talk to women, Amos, they will tell you they experience a calling from God, plain and simple. All of us act on a variety of motives but I believe a call to serve God in ministry is the driving force for most women and most men.